> Arctic MUD PK Logs

Postink can be deadly...

Dont post and drink!

28 Apr 2004 · Submitted by runulv · POV: Fidlas · 689 views · ★ Score +1.9 · 13 votes
Spethia arrives from the west.

251H 137V 6986880X 1403C Exits:NWU> You utter the words, 'lightning bolt'
The lightning bolt hits Spethia with full impact.

251H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:Perfect] [Spethia:Good] Mem:4 Exits:NWU>
Xapi flies in from the north.
A gargoyle arrives from the north.

251H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:Perfect] [Spethia:Good] Mem:4 Exits:NWU>
Attle slowly fades into existence.
Attle CRASHES into Spethia in a thundering collision, knocking him to the ground!

251H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:Perfect] [Spethia:Good] Mem:4 Exits:NWU>
Xapi slowly fades into existence.
Spethia steps aside as Xapi attempts a bash, stumbles, and falls flat on his face.

251H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:Perfect] [Spethia:Good] Mem:4 Exits:NWU>
Lauriel gives a gargoyle an order.
A gargoyle delivers a quick snap kick to Spethia. Spethia staggers and tries to recover.
A gargoyle loses its balance and tumbles to the ground.

251H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:Perfect] [Spethia:Fair] Mem:4 Exits:NWU>
A gargoyle claws Spethia extremely hard.
A gargoyle massacres Spethia with its claw.
Xapi massacres Spethia with his slash.
Attle massacres Spethia with his cleave.
You whip Spethia extremely hard.
Spethia massacres YOU with his cleave.

227H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:V.Good] [Spethia:Fair] Mem:4 Exits:NWU>
Lauriel focuses on Xapi and utters the words, 'paghz'.

227H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:V.Good] [Spethia:Fair] Mem:4 Exits:NWU> c 'lightning bolt'
You utter the words, 'lightning bolt'
The lightning bolt hits Spethia with full impact.

227H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:V.Good] [Spethia:Bad] Mem:5 Exits:NWU>
Stimpson tells your group 'oops'

227H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:V.Good] [Spethia:Bad] Mem:5 Exits:NWU>
Aett arrives from the north.
A gargoyle STANDS UP!!!

227H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:V.Good] [Spethia:Bad] Mem:5 Exits:NWU>
Stimpson tells your group 'tick'

227H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:V.Good] [Spethia:Bad] Mem:5 Exits:NWU>
Aett leaves up.

227H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:V.Good] [Spethia:Bad] Mem:5 Exits:NWU>
A gargoyle massacres Spethia with its claw.
Xapi massacres Spethia with his slash.
Xapi massacres Spethia with his slash.
Attle annihilates Spethia with his cleave.
Spethia massacres YOU with his cleave.

203H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:Good] [Spethia:V.Bad] Mem:5 Exits:NWU>
Lauriel focuses harshly on Spethia and utters the words, 'force bolt'.
Lauriel slowly fades into existence.
The sound of bones cracking echoes as Lauriel's force bolt slams into Spethia.

203H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:Good] [Spethia:Awful] Mem:5 Exits:NWU> You utter the words, 'lightning bolt'
The lightning bolt hits Spethia with full impact.
Spethia is incapacitated and will slowly die, if not aided.

203H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:Good] [Spethia:Awful] Mem:6 Exits:NWU>
A gargoyle spins and tries to kick Spethia, but Spethia dodges out of the way.
Spethia is incapacitated and will slowly die, if not aided.

203H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:Good] [Spethia:Awful] Mem:6 Exits:NWU> get all spethia

Attle CRASHES into Spethia in a devastating bash, killing him mercilessly.
You receive 0 experience.
Spethia is dead! R.I.P.
Xapi STANDS UP!!!

203H 137V 6986880X 1403C [Me:Good] [Spethia:Dying] Mem:6 Exits:NWU>
The death cry of Spethia echoes from somewhere nearby...

203H 137V 6986880X 1403C Mem:6 Exits:NWU>
Lauriel gets an ancient scroll from the corpse of Spethia.
Lauriel gets a heavy rune-inscribed battle axe from the corpse of Spethia.
Lauriel gets a sparkling black bracelet from the corpse of Spethia.
Lauriel gets an indigo leather scabbard from the corpse of Spethia.
Lauriel gets a glowing adamantite shield from the corpse of Spethia.
Lauriel gets some lightly scorched bark bracers from the corpse of Spethia.
Lauriel gets a pair of green boots from the corpse of Spethia.
Lauriel gets a colorful mushroom from the corpse of Spethia.
Lauriel gets a colorful mushroom from the corpse of Spethia.
Lauriel gets a colorful mushroom from the corpse of Spethia.
Lauriel gets a colorful mushroom from the corpse of Spethia.

203H 137V 6986880X 1403C Mem:6 Exits:NWU> TICK IN 16 SECONDS.
Unexpected end of input:
You must specify a character to perform that action on.

203H 137V 6986880X 1403C Mem:6 Exits:NWU> You get a pair of fighter's gloves from the corpse of Spethia.
You get a pair of silver dragon scale leggings from the corpse of Spethia.
You get a brilliant steel helm from the corpse of Spethia.
You get a suit of gold dragonscale battle armor from the corpse of Spethia.
You get a massive collar from the corpse of Spethia.
You get a gold trimmed burgundy cape from the corpse of Spethia.
You get a golden ring covered in feces from the corpse of Spethia.
You get a ring of protection from the corpse of Spethia.
You get the amulet of Kul from the corpse of Spethia.
You get a piece of sweet bread from the corpse of Spethia.
Chest : You can't carry that much weight.
You get a glowing scroll of recall from the corpse of Spethia.
Scroll : You can't carry that many items.
Scroll : You can't carry that many items.
Scroll : You can't carry that many items.
Waterskin : You can't carry that many items.
Scroll : You can't carry that many items.
Waterskin : You can't carry that many items.

203H 137V 6986880X 1403C Mem:6 Exits:NWU>
Lauriel tells your group 'done'

203H 137V 6986880X 1403C Mem:6 Exits:NWU> c 'strength' xapi
You utter the words, 'strength'
Xapi appears to grow stronger.

203H 137V 6986880X 1403C Mem:7 Exits:NWU>
Xapi gets a blackened chest from the corpse of Spethia.
Xapi gets a glowing scroll of recall from the corpse of Spethia.
Xapi gets a scroll of recall from the corpse of Spethia.
Xapi gets a scroll of recall from the corpse of Spethia.
Xapi gets a waterskin from the corpse of Spethia.
Xapi gets a scroll of recall from the corpse of Spethia.
Xapi gets a waterskin from the corpse of Spethia.

76 comments

  1. tudets · 28 Apr 2004
    rofl, poor guy. I guess bsp got encouraged by his post and 'over archieved' themselves hahah. great game spethia, you rock!
  2. yair · 28 Apr 2004
    If anybody missed the pure wisdom of Spethia, here it is:

    Message 10 (Tue Apr 27): Spethia -- Wild vs. BSP
    ----------
    There are real differences between the majority of the core
    people who play in these two clans. Most of it originates from,
    naturally where we live and what our surroundings are. Wild is
    comprised mostly of people from the US, and other western societies,
    will BSP is comprised mostly of people from Europe and eastern
    societies. The drive for at least some Americans is to achieve and
    accomplish more then their parents did, to succeed on their own,
    and become something greater then the average joe. Countries from
    the eastern part of the world tend to be more socialistic societies,
    given the basic needs of life, and aren't rewarded for over achieving.

    These characteristics are amplified here on Arctic as well. Wild
    tends to over achieve, and break through when they are down, while BSP
    tends to quit and waddle in their own misery when challenges arise.
    While power struggles always change here on Arctic, the power of achievement
    and rising up from the bottom has shown to prevail more then not.

    So while this is a game, I challenge people to rise up and attempt
    to 'achieve' things in their life even after failing horribly time after
    time. It's all about the mindset, and the willingness to become greater

    through hard work and discipline.

    Spethia, Special Hammer from the Old Horde

    p.s. If you are a democrat, ingore my post because you are all for misery.
  3. mavlad · 28 Apr 2004
    just 3 days after wilds win the battle and they start losing left and right again :)
  4. tudets · 28 Apr 2004
    After posts like that you shouldn't wonder why rest of the world hates america. Your "america is better than rest of the world" -attitude really shines through in that post. Luckily there are still people in america who aren't as brainwashed and narrowminded as you.
  5. meetalisher · 28 Apr 2004
    Spethia = G.W. Bush
  6. Chris · 28 Apr 2004
    Yes tudets I am one of those Americans and i am BSP and i am ashamed of whoever the hell Spethia is and that i live in the same country as him.
  7. suf · 28 Apr 2004
    spethia just posted the truth about danes--sealanders and jutlanders both are fat and lazy and consume copious amounts of beer... if only they learned to apply themselves and instead of getting jobs played on mud nonstop for the rest of their able lives they could reach that special level of over achievement...
  8. haley · 28 Apr 2004
    Looks to me like a good example of Karma (Kharma?)... in action.

    Jerk!
  9. harm · 28 Apr 2004
    the whole political angle on this; it's funny to see so much defensiveness. what, exactly, is so shocking & "narrow-minded" about the assertion that in terms of sheer achievement, the states absolutely dwarf much of the world? is that wrong, objectively speaking? is it not true that economically, culturally & militarily, america is the foremost power in the world?

    i guess you can argue the reasons why that is, but to deny it outright is to deny what's staring you in the face.

    think about it for a second: we are playing a game in english, using relatively cheap personal computers that were initially developed by american corporations, through the internet, which originated as an american military project (google aarpa-net sometime, just for fun. oh that's right, google is an... american company. what a surprise.)

    that doesn't mean that folks in other nations aren't accomplishing things, of course--just that those accomplishments tend not to be on a comparable level. to build on the example above, the dikumud engine arctic is loosely based on was written by a bunch of danes in copenhagen. ok, that's awesome. some of us use jmc, a piece of software written by a talented russian coder. good for him, & good for those of us who use that piece of software. linux was developed by a fin. i could go on & on & on--but the point of the matter is that all of these inventions wouldn't exist if broader, more radical achievements had not been developed in america. if affordable personal computers wouldn't exist, who would write be writing code, and why? if the internet hadn't ever taken off, who would be mudding right now, much less writing clients for mudding? it's not "narrow-minded" but rather simply the truth that in the world of today, america tends to be at the forefront of innovation and achievement.

    not in all things, no. i bet certain nations in western europe have much better integrated systems of public transportation, for exaple. some swedes have come up with REALLY good ways of making & selling cheap furniture, and i like having an ikea store a few km from my home. nokia makes probably the best cell phones in the world, and i've had one for 2 years now. according to all statistics, everybody in the world works less, on average, than americans--which must be nice, i guess. the traditional cousine is probably healthier, and it must be nice to live 3 or 4 hours away from the louvre by train. even nicer to be able to visit hans christian andersen's birthplace, or kierkegaard's, without having to cross the ocean. these are not things to sneer at, but once again--do they even begin to compare in scope & relevance to things like the personal computer, or the internet?

    the world's a pretty big place, and confusing "the rest of the world" with western & northern europe is foolish, but i doubt somebody's going to try & claim that in all truth, it's sudan, bolivia and nepal that are leading humanity into the third millennium. nobody--or perhaps, maybe a few idiots, the same kind of idiots that would vote lepen in france or murder pim fortuyn in the netherlands, or assassinate the swedish prime minister--believes that "america is better" by virtue of america being america. look at the results, gauge cautiously, allow that no nation will ever be perfect, and if you've any awareness of politics, culture & economics, you'll have to conclude that at least for the time being, those in america really seem to be doing better, in most regards, than people in other quarters of the globe.
  10. Rurh · 28 Apr 2004
    Harm has been infected by the Rurh-o virus
  11. harm · 28 Apr 2004
    no rurh i havent all of a sudden found myself attracted to young boys, nor have i started wanking to patrick swayze's opus of hip-gyration, dirty dancing

    when i do ill let you know though

  12. psychoDAD · 28 Apr 2004
    nope. it was darpanet ! then it became arpanet because defense in projects was very unpopular due to vietnam!

    DARPANET = Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration Network
  13. patrick · 28 Apr 2004
    Harm: I agree with you mostly for once. I know the Euros of this mud for the most part as well as anyone. Your good people, and not so different as us americans as you believe.

    The negative global view of America by foreign countries
    in my opinion stems somewhat from the sense of pride others take in thier heritage. French, British, Scandanavian, Italian, German et all have at some point in history had glorious empires or kingdoms in which thier culture and society touched people far outside thier respective borders. But its not those times anymore and your past is just that, past. In each society's time it was thier culture and ways that influenced the world, much to the frustration and hatred of the effected. But in today's world, it is western culture that rules, like it or not. I am american and many facets of my country's culture I despise. But our technological and scientific accomplishments cannot be denied. It is through our political, economical, and military presence that much of the world enjoys peace. And for that superiority we are envied and hated. It comes with the turf. All you euros understand this Im sure somewhere deep inside behind your defensive denial, but just know there are those of us americans who dont condone all the bullshit our country puts on you. But dont forget the benefits you enjoy either you ungrateful hippie bitches.

    In the words of the Immortal Lawrence Taylor "It aint about being the Man, Its about staying the Man"
  14. locke · 28 Apr 2004
    ikea sucks. anyone who buys that piece of shit furniture is a sucker. the only thing the owner of ikea proved is that most americans will buy whatever is massproduced in a catalog or warehouse, despite it's low quality and poor craftsmanship.
  15. yair · 28 Apr 2004
    You tend to forget that the USA has become an empire only in the past 50-60 years. And you tend to forget that empires fall, and arrogant people like you will be the cause of it.
  16. Ithron · 28 Apr 2004
    Holy crap I hope this isn't a good cross section of America's population. I find it hard to believe so many people could possibly be so insolent as to seriously imagine that other countries' "accomplishments tend not to be on a comparable level," and likewise for many of the other claims.

    Edit: And for those of you who don't know, I'm not from any of the countries we're primarily talking about but rather Australia.
  17. runulv · 28 Apr 2004
    if you wanna talk about wars, I guess US is the place to go, they sure did start a fair share of them. Peace? ..uh, sure!
  18. jurthy · 28 Apr 2004
    On the topic of "No internet without America":

    How old is US anyway? some 200 years? So OK, by rephrasing your own words, there would be no freaking America without those lazy europeans. In fact, "Americans" are not a nation at all but just a descendants of spanish, portuguese, british, etc people.
  19. Darby · 28 Apr 2004
    Don't forget the african slaves that actually pulled USA's economy through for a couple centuries.

    PS. USA's a dominating empire in today's world, no need to deny it. But i don't see the need for it to translate that fact onto arctic mud's population and judge players based on people's nationality. I mean, there are not that many players and statistics simply won't work, we're different people with different backgrounds (even those evil finns), you can get to know us all personally if you choose so.
  20. ralfiepoo · 28 Apr 2004
    re: jurthy
    aye

    By the way, Leif den Lykkelige discovered america many many years before columbus. I heard that many americans doesn't believe this fact, is that true?

  21. runulv · 28 Apr 2004
    he was only 500ish year earlier! vikings all the way!
  22. Darby · 28 Apr 2004
    I think Indians discovered America way before vikings, yay for Indians!
  23. Manu · 28 Apr 2004
    Yank, through all the history of our clan we've been fighting against the odds. The characteristical mass quittings and mass deletions were the means of the fight as well. Same as your beloved white anglo-saxon protestants' exodus from Europe into Americas.
    And Harm, you talk too big for a representative of an _immigrant_ nation which does not even possess it's own language. Culture? Hah!
    Before teaching others the rights and wrongs of social life, how about you punish yourselves for the crimes against humanity? E.g. the most outrageous genocide of the indigenous population (german nazi? bah, they're but children if compared), the most extensive use of slavery for quite a long period etc.
    I say, your heads are filled with bullshit.
  24. Kuss · 28 Apr 2004
    As for the warlike nature of the U.S as of late, don't blame the majority of the Americans, blame the christian conservative zealots led by George W.

    For the rest of you, there is no way to gauge how much each culture has contributed to the world. If people through out time had not recognized and built on the accomplishment of other civilizations we would still be stuck in the Middle Ages trying to lead into gold.

    However, it is true that the U.S is -currently- the most powerful nation in the world. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly argue otherwise. But that could change within the next 25 - 50 years.

    What I'm not sure Europeans and others through out the world understand is that there are two totally different political factions in the U.S. To place all Americans into one group, and to assume that all of our views are shared by our president is grossly unfair. George Bush wasn't even elected by a majority of people in this country, in fact he received 500,000 votes less than his opponent.

    Lastly, Yair, I find it amusing that you seem to hope that the U.S will fall due to it's arrogance. As I recall the United States is one of the few allies Israel does have. I'd hate to see what would happen to Israel if the U.S ceased to exist or if it lost it's military might.
  25. luba · 28 Apr 2004
    Year 501 by noam chomsky offers quite an interesting view on the imperialist nature of the current american power comparing it with the columbian age of imperialism. Possibly suggesting the current balance of power is not neccessarily stable. It also clearly and consicely goes through the machine like way the U.S.A has victimised other less fortunate cultures and claimed control of vast quantities of the worlds wealth. Yet poverty still exists in alarming numbers within the country. However most great powers in the past have comitted such atrocites hiding behind religion when they are only really killing to gain more power. Look at how fast America went in to afghanistan in comparison to east timor where they didnt bat an eyelid. Seems fighting evil infidels is just an excuse to gain control of the worlds oil supply.

    It is funny to see such a reaction to a bit of american patriotism. Its even brought me to post for the first time.
  26. tudets · 28 Apr 2004
    Yeah i can't deny the fact that americans are pretty dominating world power atm, but that wasn't the point here. Also you gotta remeber where the people from america are originated from. Descedants of people from european countries and slaves from africa. So basically you are EUROs too!

    ps. native indians didn't really discover america, they lived there allready.
  27. Manu · 28 Apr 2004
    I don't think anyone is argueing over the political/economical/military superiority of the states in the present world. This is not the point whatsoever. Spethia talked culture... Now that's what's wrong with him.
  28. Darby · 28 Apr 2004
    re: tudets

    If you actually took your time to investigate, you'd find out there's 2 main versions of the american indians origin.

    First, shared by most historians, is that they migrated to America 13-15 thousands years ago from Asia using the narrow stripe of land that used to connect Chukotka and Alaska.

    Second, less common, is that they (at least some of them), came from lands that are now Portugal and Spain (yes, Europe again).

    Anyhow, they surely discovered America first.
  29. meetalisher · 28 Apr 2004
    Many of who post here are often blending in the US leadership and the US historical significance, which is wrong. George Bush is a complete idiot who should have been put down at birth, yet he is in control of this country, which just shows how this truly is the "land of opportunity". Also, I would like to see anyone point out a part of the world where the public dislike of their leadership does not coincide with poor living, work and other conditions. IMO everyone has the right idea but just isn't putting it into the right words, so I'll try to:

    America is the lovechild of Europe and Slave Trading (I am sure there are other factors, but it seems that those are the 2 major ones) , therefore it could not exist without either. It is a powerful nation, a source of many inventions and innovations that have bettered the world, as well as endangered it. To label it as one "kind" of country is wrong, but so is labelling OTHER countries as well. The history of this world consists of borrowing, stealing, warring and trading between countries, therefore everything is interconnected and interwoven in such a way, that results in our world today. Like it or not, your countrymen do NOT have a certain outlook on life simply because they are from that country, but rather on what kind of people they are. If you're from Afghanistan but you move to the US and are able to invent a cure for cancer, that does not make America "the place" where creations occur. It merely makes it a stepping stone to success. In the same way, if an American goes to Russia and kills Putin, that does not make Russia the place where evil acts abound, it's merely a place where the person acts out his/her desires.
  30. Hravitz · 28 Apr 2004
    Some of these attempts to bring down the US are fairly idiotic.

    Saying the US is a bad place because it once engaged in immoral practices is ridiculous. Please try to name one country that did not. Germany? England? Spain? If you think your country did not, your country was either too insignificant to make the history books or you are simply ignorant.

    In addition, claiming Americans are basically Euros because many of them have European heritage and thus America is no better than any European country is equally stupid. You could just as easily say we originated from chimps, and so the US is no more powerful that a colony a monkeys, or anyone else for that matter.

    The thrust of this argument is that America is *the* superpower in the world right now. There are several reasons. One is resources. Another is culture. Yet another is the political system. And of course technology.

    In actual fact, America is not some nazi dominating force that wants to conquer the world. But a country is formed as a collection of self interests, and it needs to protect those interests. IE Iraq was threatening those interests, outwardly proclaiming that they wished harm to the US, trying to create nuclear weapons, succeeding in creating chemical/biologycal weapons, and planning to assassinate the former George Bush.

    In addition, culturally America is obviously not perfect. It has its problems integrating immigrants and blacks (much like other countries like France/Germany), but what does exist is an extremely strong worth ethic in general. Nowhere is there more racial/gender equality, look at the statistics, and nowhere else do people work longer hours in industry.

    In conclusion, let us all bond by thanking whatever higher being you believe in that we are not French.
  31. tudets · 29 Apr 2004
    Darby, i admit that you might be right, but i also raise a question. Do you really believe that there were no native population in america before those people came over from alaska and settled to live in the land? I've heard that theory aswell but i still fail to believe that there were nonexistant native population in america by the time they arrived. Same goes for southern americas rainforests etc.

    ps. Hravitz seems like brainwash has been complete for you.
  32. RottenPotato · 29 Apr 2004
    Darby -- The indians were not 'surely' here first. I do not remember where I saw it, but there was supposedly a human skull that was found prior to when the indians were 'supposedly' to have come to North America. The fact that they normally refuse to let scientists investigate skeletons found at different areas of North America boggles my mind. They want to be treated fairly but give everyone else no chance.
  33. karma12 · 29 Apr 2004
    I don't get it. Why is there the assertion that Americans work longer hours than the rest of the world. I've worked in both NYC and Kuala Lumpur (both in finance) and frankly, the work hours Stateside is nowhere near what its like here. I can't speak for Europe but bank and finance employees here consistently work 10-12 hour day for shitty pay. You could say the same occurs for I-Banking/Investments in the States but that happens everywhere in the world.

    I used to think that it was cool that people get to leave work after an 8-hour shift, and having such a thing as overtime pay.
  34. Yankton · 29 Apr 2004
    If you want to learn the truth about things in American with regards to politics, and you are tired of hearing all of this sheepish non-informative garbage dribble flowing from people who do nothing but listen to biased media tring to sell air time, then go to RushLimbaugh.com and listen to his radio show on a daily basis. While people like Harm and Patrick have the ability to think for themselves, most people do not and enjoy not having to educate themselves, and beg for the government to FEED ME.

    p.s. It gets really tiring of hearing uninformed people talk about how the US went into Iraq for oil, when in fact, it was France, Germany, and Russia, hell the UN for that matter, who had deals with Iraq to make millions of dollars off selling illegal oil to supply Iraq with weapons and a means to threaten the rest of the world with his madman ideals. It's examples like this that people base their clueless lives on and give others misinformation about the US. 3/4 of the reason you people are dogging America for are falsehoods filtered into your brains by people who use their rights and freedom of speech to yap about things, which they are unwilling to stand up themselves for to fight for, defend, or even backup verbally just because the good people of this country die for these lacky's rights to say what they want without reprives. When you want to talk out about something, grow a brain, take just 1 split second to think about WHY you are saying what you say, and educate yourselves. If you aren't going to better yourselves, then there is no use to try and drag everyone else around you down the same gutter.
  35. Kuss · 29 Apr 2004
    Silly Yank, why is it every Republican thinks that every Democrat in this country advocates welfare and socialism. How would you like it if I held you, as a christian conservative, responsible for all the things Jerry Falwell has stated. Rush Limbaugh has put his foot in his mouth quite a few times as well. Lets not mention his hypocritical views on drugs and drug users and the proper punishments they should receive, when he himself had quite the pill addiction.

    We've had this discussion before, and I still do not know how you can believe that Americans were -not- misled by the president.

    Lets see... first the case was that Hussein was developing chemical and nuclear weapons. He supposedly was trying to buy uranium in Africa according to English intelligence which proved to be not true at all. Even after that, Bush and other intelligence officials looking for war figured he'd at least have biological weapons. Of course there is real proof that he used biological weapons before against Iran and against the Kurds, but what Bush and several other members of his cabinet failed to mention is that the U.S GAVE him those weapons.
  36. Kuss · 29 Apr 2004
    Then there was the accusation that Hussein had ties to Al-Qaeda, the "proof" of this was a Bin Laden tape in which he referred to the struggle of the Iraqi's as being the struggle of his people as well. That is hardly proof of a collaboration, sounds more like an attempt to get all Arabs to participate in his recently declared Jihad.

    Lastly after the war had already begun and there were no weapons to be found, it became a human rights issue. As if we had claimed it was a human rights issue the entire time. While I agree he was not a good ruler, and may have been cruel to his people, but that really can't be considered grounds to destroy his regime. Had it been of epic proportions, like that of Hitler and the Jews, that I could understand. If what Hussein, mostly Uday actually, was doing in his country was grounds for removal then we'd have to dispose of about 10 other regimes around the world.

    Oh yeah, and if you want to talk about sponsoring terrorism, during Ronald Reagan's administration, also a republican, we gave money and weapons to Osama Bin Laden to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. Then again, I'm probably just uninformed and making all of this up.

    Sorry I had to break this up into 2 posts.
  37. meetalisher · 29 Apr 2004
    re: yankton

    i'm surprised that you didn't see the stupidity of your argument.

    you claim that the un helped organize illegal sales of iraqi oil..true, however you play it off as if they were doing something terrible, when in fact they were supplying a lifeline to a country where thousands of children were dying on the streets from starvation, because bush choked on a pretzel and blamed it on terrorists. repeating a point, the us is a good country, the leadership in the us is shitty, and before you start trying to explain the basis of your rebuttals, get the governments dick out of your ass, stop collecting welfare and open your eyes to whats going on around you. thanks
  38. Raf · 29 Apr 2004
    I think a lot of people misunderstand america because it's so diverse and large in population. Unfortunately at the same time a good portion of americans live in a bubble and the majority of the media has done a very poor job (and they themselves admit this) of informing of the facts as seen from different sides. While I as a canadien admire americans as innovative and hard-working I pity those who see the world through the eyes of mostly american media or government rhetoric (and this goes for both republicans and democrats even though atm it's republicans).

    We all want to believe that we know it all and our beliefs are based on reality. But if you truely want to know it all, diversify your source of information instead of limiting it to those whom you already share your view with.

    I tend to visit half a dozen to a dozen different online media 'outlets'. If you are a north american I would recommend at least checking bbc.com (british broadcasting corporation) as they are one of the largest in the world, long-standing and imho do an 'ok' job of reporting from different sources and areas of the world.

    and check this link out in regards to the situation of iraq by some former ambassadors and their view:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3660837.stm
  39. psychoDAD · 29 Apr 2004
    suf needs to lock this thread. if idiots want to post bullshit about politics/history they obviously know nothing about. then goto some lame ass political forum where "your kind" like to flock.

    [ actually i'm happier to see this here which is somewhat civilized versus the nonsense that Rurh and the other spammers like him like to fill up the comments with --suf ]
  40. harm · 29 Apr 2004
    raf pretty much nailed it. listen to him, for he is pretty wise in this matter, with two short qualfications: the problem of media imbecility is a worldwide affliction, & while i would encourage all to consult as many outlets of information as possible, i would disagree that the beeb is the end-all to impartiality--see http://www.biased-bbc.blogspot.com/

    somebody asked, "why is there the assertion that Americans work longer hours than the rest of the world." because we can actually measure how many work hours are being put in in most countries & we can compare, that's why. see:

    http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/opinion.asp?ArticleID=94097

    quote: "According to a report by the International Labour Organisation (ILO) issued in 2001, the U.S. is the place where people work the longest hours in the industrialised world. In fact, Americans work 1,978 hours annually, which represents about 350 hours or nine weeks more than their counterparts in Western Europe.

    According to the same report, Germany recorded the shortest yearly working hours at 1,461, followed by France with 1,531 hours and Sweden with 1,602 hours."

    surprise, surprise... i wouldn't put TOO much trust into it, but if you want to consult the ILO database firsthand, which is the statistical arm of the un labor department, the url is http://laborsta.ilo.org/

    here's another stat sheet released by the organisation for economic co-operation & development, comparing productivity & per hour income levels in europe vs the same in the u.s.:

    http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/31/7/29880166.pdf

    (gee, look at how productivity levels in all those european nations are lower than in the states. i wonder what that mans...)

    a comparison between total number of work hours per year in canada & the u.s., released by the canadian bureau of statistics:

    http://www.statcan.ca/english/IPS/Data/11F0019MIE.htm

    the shorter version is at:

    http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/030911/d030911b.htm

    paper comparing the average output of canadian & american systems, by a professor @ the department of economics @ the university of quebec @ monreal:

    http://www.csls.ca/ipm/6/fortin-f.pdf

    (turns out that as a statistical average, the output of a canadian who works for 1 hour is comparable to 90% of the output of an american who works for 1 hour)

    anyway, the real point is that none (or, in any case, few) of you will try to actually follow the links & educate yourselves w/ some serious scholarly research. you'll keep believing whatever silly notions you're already holding on to, bizarre delusions about big bad amerikkka terrorizing & exploiting the world, & how all americans are fat, ignorant & have no idea of what real culture is. but that's fine, really, 'cause this is just a game, & this is just a stupid posting board, & we shouldn't be spending much time on them anyway...
  41. Kuss · 29 Apr 2004
    I wonder if any of the comments Harm or psychodad posted are made towards me, regarding what I "think" is the truth. I made all my comments based on direct quotes and historical facts. I'm not quite sure how ANY kind of media can make my views biased in any way.
  42. Raf · 29 Apr 2004
    Most definately americans as a whole work the most hours per year imo. As a side note (as much as I can recall) according to some worldly report french workers were the most productive per hour worked (they said probably so they can leave work sooner) and I can't recall which european country (I think sweden or switzerland) the most happy (they work 4 days a week or somesuch). All very interesting stuff! I personally think 20+ years ago people enjoyed life far more and spent more quality time with friends and family. Seems we are too caught up with earning a living nowadays.
  43. Rorc · 29 Apr 2004
    Although I like this whole debate type posting thread, I'd just like to point out that NOONE has said anything about the log.
  44. suf · 29 Apr 2004
    Rorc--it's not any different than any other log... the comments are never about the log... they do seem to be somehow mud related...

    and on that note, do not be surprised to see waves of furious finns sweep the mud like locusts soon when finland loses their hockey game...
  45. Steve87 · 29 Apr 2004
    I find this really funny

    runulv - if you wanna talk about wars, I guess US is the place to go, they sure did start a fair share of them. Peace? ..uh, sure!

    Runulv i find this funny, Do you know that this Iraq War was the first ever war that America Striked first??? I mean it really makes me mad when ppl try to knock the US with this fake info, i wouldnt mind if you had somewhat of an idea of what you are talking about. And also does everyone like to ignore the fact that Iraq was threataning the US? Is the US supposed to just sit around and never do anything about that, Dont look at it from one side of the story. If Iraq never wanted a war they could of prevented it in numerous ways.

    So Basically my point being is try to look at both sides of the story also, and quit being so narrow minded and ignorant.
  46. Chris · 29 Apr 2004
    Steve you are right... Runulv please think before you speak... Or maybe where ur from they are telling you the wrong things...
  47. Malthros · 29 Apr 2004
    Having europeans mention the US's use of slavery as a negitive is quite possibly the funniest thing they can do, since the massive tobacco industry helped european economy greatly, and had it not been for the slaves used in the US, there would be no jazz, R&B, Rock and Roll...etc. Besides, we're paying for it now with bullshit law and special handouts for minorities. I would hate to be the person who has to hire a 2nd rate employee because I have to meet some retarded race quota, or not get into a college because some minority with worse grades has to take my place to fill numbers.

    Metal: Yes, the UN was giving a lifeline to a country, except that the country's lead was taking a massive amount of the profits for himself, and not using it to help those in need. Can you guess who some of the biggest customers of Iraq were? We'll exclude that France was being paid (with oil) for the military aircraft they sold to Iraq, so hell yes they were against a change.

    It's extremely annoying to listen to so many people, mainly doumbass liberals, bash G. W. Bush for being some kind of moron. He might've ended up with C's, but what the hell have you done with your life that makes you better?


    P.S. America is in no way an Empire. Saying that would be like saying Bush is equal to Hitler, which I have heard from europeans I know, and both comments are ignorant and short-sighted. We should pull out of Iraq completely, and cut off foreign aid and focus on finding new fuel sources..etc, along with many other much needed changes that I won't go into.
  48. tudets · 29 Apr 2004
    Sad thing is Yankton really believes in his own bullshit.

    ps. Malthros wtf are you talking about. what has Roll n R'n'B etc have to do with this matter. Do you sincerely think that those forms of art would have never been sprung out anywhere else than ïn america and that the slaves were needed for this to happen? Slavery was merely mentioned since people wanted to point out some of americas missdoings.
  49. Manu · 29 Apr 2004
    This arguement is plain ridiculous and pathetic.
    It started off with a thesis voiced by spethia, claiming that wild are better than bsp just because the first possess some mythical "power of achievement", turning into some bullshit about working hours and iraq war.
    Your vision on education is quite entertaining, too.
    P.S. You, american wise men, are far more concerned with that america vs the world issue than us, the world. Apparently, all the talk reminds me of the adolescence crisis, when a youth is struggling against the authority of his parents, with all the maximalism, denial of authorities, and the lack of wisdom involved. (S)he is already able to kick father's butt, yet can not understand simple things which come with ageing and common experience. This youth thinks it knows better of the world than anybody else, etc...... Hope you guys mature some time soon.
  50. tikk · 29 Apr 2004
    oh canada.....
  51. Bedouin · 29 Apr 2004
    Even though I dont post much here, I just had to reply to this thread...

    some idiot wrote : the internet originated as an american military project
    Untrue - look up CERN on the internet

    some idiot wrote : this Iraq War was the first ever war that America Striked first
    Untrue - they also attacked Yugoslavia first. Actually, apart from Pearl Harbor, they always strike first

    some idiot wrote : according to all statistics, everybody in the world works less, on average, than americans
    Untrue - check the statistics for japan or any other industrial nation in asia.

    some idiot wrote : As for the warlike nature of the U.S as of late, don't blame the majority of the Americans, blame the christian conservative zealots led by George W.
    Untrue - Clinton attacked Yugoslavia, Bush Sr. attacked Panama, Reagan attacked Grenada, and I'm not even gonna list the presidents before that. US had a total of 15 presidents who did not preside over war during their terms. 24 did. What the US terms "regional conflicts" is not even included in those stats.

    Conclusion - Yes, the US is definitely a power nowadays. You could actually call it an empire. History shows us that all empires eventually crumble, usually from within. Older empires lasted thousands of years (Egypt, greece, romans). Newer empires lasted hundreds of years (Habsburgs, Ottoman, Britain). Draw your own conclusion about how long the US empire will last, especially with the way it arrogantly estranges itself from the rest of the world which it depends upon for survival (oil, trade, immigrant workforce, etc).

    Summary :
    1. NOBODY likes america except americans.
    2. Not even all americans like america.
    3. Get bashed and die a miserable death.
  52. Auzzie · 29 Apr 2004
    '....Americans is to achieve and accomplish more then their parents did...Countries from the eastern part of the world aren't rewarded for over achieving...' - and that is why Wilds are betetr than BSP

    What an absolute crock of shit - and that all of you are sitting here arguing as experts is even funnier.

    Aussies rule you all because we have invented the real important things - the black box flight recorder, the esky and the kangaroo scrotum purse.

    So stop your political hooha-ing and get back onto the mud and fight out your differences like real men (and women)!

    Auz
  53. RottenPotato · 29 Apr 2004
    Americans work longer and more productive hours because the US is ran like Nazi Germany. You see what they want you to see. You do what they want you to do. You step out of line (school shootings etc.) and you will be punished and have priveleges taken away (i.e. guards at every school). Now Harm shut the fuck up before I force-feed you to young boys so you catch the Rurh-O virus.
  54. psychoDAD · 29 Apr 2004
    Kuss. my comments were posted at the non americans and people liek Corey (i dont know what fucking country you're from)

    the US run like Nazi Germany? the facists? man are you fucking that unaware?
  55. MikeS · 29 Apr 2004
    Re: Meetalisher
    Uh yeah the illegal oil sales resulted in the poor and downtrodden being helped out. Sure. And right after the attack on Iraq started, Saddam's son broke into the nat'l bank and took out however many millions in dollars cash. Don't be naive, Saddam's regime wasn't concerned in the slightest with rectifying the starvation of the poor in that country. And telling yank to get off welfare? take a look at the welfare programs in the european countries and the % of the population that is on welfare before spouting off. rather hippocritical i'd think.
    and as for yair and the "empire" falling...come on, this isn't hitlers third reich. i'd be more worried about the palestinians and your own gov't.
  56. meetalisher · 29 Apr 2004
    re: MikeS

    The point I was trying to make (and maybe got sidetracked) was that Bush's war on Iraq was pointless, caused the death of many US soldiers, and most importantly brought the US reputation into the gutter.

    For everyone that says that the war was justified, i suppose you also think we have a good president? Well, if a jackass who almost dies from a pretzel, who singlehandedly ruins benefecial public relations with 8 major world powers, that took DECADES to establish, in the first year of his presidency AND has made a laughingstock of the American (I mean seriously, you think Europeans don't look at the way things are in our country and say to themselves "Jesus those guys are fucking idiots, they elected an autistic monkey for president")......

    then that's sad.

    if bush gets re-elected, I wouldn't be surprised to see a nuclear attack on a US city in the near future.
  57. Malthros · 29 Apr 2004
    For the record, the Roman Empire did not last even a thousand years. Roman didn't become an empire until after Julius Caesar's death (since his adpoted son was first to have control, rather than the use of a senate).

    Azzuie: The computer was invented in america. ;)

    Tudets: I was just going into depth on slavery since someone mentioned it as a negitive. And no, I don't think the other music types would've developed as they did, because if you study the history of jazz, slaves in the american plantations were muchcloser to their master's quarters than in other areas of the world. They could hear music and singing of their owners, then you have the missionaries who taught them relgious hyms, which lead to their work songs..etc. This isn't the place to go into it so i won't.

    All countries have their dark times. England was the crusades, Germany the World Wars, Russia had the czars/communism/mongols/wars with sweden..etc. China/Japan with their invasions of each other. Perhaps it is america's turn to have a darker time, who knows. I personally think we should leave Iraq, cut funding to certain nations, elminate welfare/unemployment payments unless it can be proven the person is looking for work..etc, and put it towards finding a new energy source, disease cures..etc.

    /random rant
  58. tikk · 30 Apr 2004
    our home and native land....
  59. meetalisher · 30 Apr 2004
    malthros, you are the kind of american that i like, you have pride in your nation, yet you have no clue what you're speaking of.

    the first computer was invented in russia, as well as the first lightbulb, internal combustion engine, helicopter, and many others. Communism was perhaps the only system that had any benefit for the people as a whole, except when assholes like stalin, yeltsin, et al came into power and exploited it. if you dont see it yet, OPEN YOUR EYES your precious president is turning the us into a communist country. first by giving the government option to detain anyone at will for no reason, option to spy on anyone for no reason, etc

    /random rant
  60. Kuss · 30 Apr 2004
    Just a couple comments...

    Yeltsin was a communist ruler?

    Communism in theory is a really good system, but it won't work in application for several reasons.

    What's going on in this country with it's paranoia over terrorism is that people are losing rights. The patriot act is a perfect example of it, supposedly it's to help safeguard against terrorism but it has already been used to take down a stripclub owner in Las Vegas. It gives the government the right to spy on it's citizens, not that it hasn't been doing it already, but now it's legal. Personally i think the threat of terrorism is greatly overblown and the constant "alerts" are just meant to keep people paranoid, for several reasons.

  61. johnny_420 · 30 Apr 2004
    i totally agree with yair because he is always correct and he speaks the truth those damn dains and shit need to get off there asses and get to work instead of being lazy pieces of shit
  62. Kuss · 30 Apr 2004
    Bedouin, you cite Yugoslavia, Grenada, Panama in your argument as examples of American wars and you say that you are going to leave regional conflicts out of it. When in fact all you did was list conflicts, not wars. There are not many Americans who "hate" America, but rather hate some of the leaders and policies we have.

    As for the U.S striking first, I want to see you create a list of -wars- in which we did.

    And lastly if you ever call me an idiot again I'll rape you so hard your mom will feel it.
  63. Yankton · 30 Apr 2004
    Kuss - Just like Clinton's definition of 'is' can mean anything he wants it to, so does your use of 'facts'. Explain why Rush is being hypocritical; he has never publicily talked about how 'drug users' are not getting the proper punishment. No one 'failed' to talk about how Iraq had/has weapons, hello. Only a tape? Come on, get with the program. Al-Qaeda had training camps in Iraq which Hussien funded and built for him. Osama had been seen several times over the past 5 years in Hussien's personal palace in Bagdad. I guess it doesn't mean anything when known terrorist meet and exchange funds. Hussien's regeime has killed roughly 4 times the amount of people that Hitler killed, so again, your wrong unless your changing the definition of 'epic' proportions in mid sentence. Hussien even had an actual Official postion in his council who's sole job was to put together rape squads and 'visit' houses of people that supposedly talked out against Hussien. Reagon did give weapons to fight against Russia in the '80s, and oh my god, managed to force Russia to fall apart, end the cold war, and reduce the greatest world wide threat of total destruction in history. I love how democrats love to use 1/10 of the truth to back up their arguments, and hope people overlook the real story. You expect others to do the same as you, not do their research and dodge questioning your poor 'fact gathering'.

    Meet - Hmm, nevermind. You haven't put forth one idea that is true or backed up with truth. Just the typical ranting and raving of clueless people. If you don't like this country so much, why don't you leave. And don't expect me to do as others would, talk about how they suck on the governments tit only do be a sucker myself. I don't tend to poke holes in my own ideas like you.
  64. Kuss · 30 Apr 2004
    Yank, there is no evidence supporting that Bin Laden and Hussein had ties, actually most reports claim that they did not even like each other. There were meetings between officials of Iraq and Bin Laden, I am not disputing that. The fact is Bin Laden didn't like Hussein because of his secular rule. In fact, the Kurds even approached Bin Laden for money to help fight against Hussein. I'm not saying it is impossible for them to have ties, but you would think the government would've offered up some proof by now. The best the U.S has done to prove their case was indicating a connection between Iraq and Al-Qaeda through another terrorist group, Ansar al-Islam. The only proven ties Hussein had to terrorism was that he supported suicide bombings in Israel by offering 50,000 dollars to the families of the suicide bombers. Also your estimates on how many people Hussein killed are grossly overestimated. By your count he would've had to kill at least 24 million people, 2 million more than the total population of Iraq.

    As for Mr. Limbaugh, Republiacns by definition are supposed to be tough on crime, this includes keeping a safe drug such as marijuana illegal and create tougher sentences for drug addicts. When an advocate of harsh drug laws turns out to be a drug addict himself, I find that to be hypocritical.
  65. meetalisher · 30 Apr 2004
    posting anymore seems like beating a dead horse, it's no use.

    the point is, you play arctic, you don't make world decisions, and as much as we would like to bitch about the way things are going in the world today, it's not very likely that any of us are going to have an effect on it. it's nice to hear peoples stances on various issues but overdoing it is like pitting a deaf mute v. a blind guy, nothing gets resolved.
  66. psychoDAD · 30 Apr 2004
    meet.. this posting thread was a necrophiliac's dream before it started (raping the dead horse that is)
  67. Bedouin · 30 Apr 2004
    Q. As for the U.S striking first, I want to see you create a list of -wars- in which we did.
    A. Too tired to start the list, but why dont you tell me when DIDN'T you strike first (with the exception of pearl harbour)? Also consider what the difference between a "war" and an "armed conflict" is. The same difference as with "terrorist" and "freedom fighter"?

    Q. And lastly if you ever call me an idiot again I'll rape you so hard your mom will feel it.
    A. Even if I had to draw a conclusion based only on the above cited sentence, I would still firmly believe that you ARE in fact just another idiot. Seeing as you come from a country rife with idiots, I don't see why you are so upset about it, you're just mediocre.

    Cheers.

    PS. I would love to see you try and rape me, irl or on the mud. I bet some of those who know me from the mud and irc found that part of your post real amusing too.
  68. Malthros · 30 Apr 2004
    Terrorists: Like the name hints, they use fear as a weapon, they will strike anything, anywhere, period. They will strike at anything, leaders, their connections, families, random people with no ties to their enemy other than being a citizen under the person.

    Freedom Fighter: Could be considered a terriorist, but an actual freedom fighter tends to focus on the ones they're trying to overthrow. They don't set off a truck full of explosives in a busy area to kill civilians just because they don't side with the freedom fighters.


    meet: communism is the single worst tpye of government, period. In theory, it is the best, but it will never -ever- work, and Soviet Russia proved it. I'm glad you like me, really, but regardless of your sadly inaccurate views of me, I know what I am talking about. You're another story. I don't recall reading that a part of communism was that the government can do whatever they want to citizens(it may very well be a part of it, I haven't read Marx or anything on the subject for awhile). Saying Bush is making america communist is on the same levels of stupidy as saying he's as bad as hitler.
  69. Kuss · 30 Apr 2004
    Bedouin, I remember you from the MUD. You played some little shit 430 hp ranger and you sucked massive cock. I can assure you that even on the MUD I am much better than you. In fact, as far as I know you're just a know nothing follower, and that's hardly intimidating. And congratulations for posting the most ignorant statement of the thread, assuming that you can gauge someone's intelligence based simply on where they live.
  70. Paulo · 30 Apr 2004
    There are two sides to every coin.

    Truth is relative to perspective.

    If posting some bullshit makes you happy then post it, if someone believes some bullshit to be the truth then they are morons too and who cares about their opinion. Post your bullshit, the people who matter just wont waste their time responding to it.
  71. tikk · 30 Apr 2004
    true patriot love....
  72. Martin · 30 Apr 2004
    I wonder if any of you thought about why the anti american sentiment has grown so strong these last few years. It seems to me as if it has gone from just general annoyance to real hate in some cases - and i see in my everyday life as well. Most people i meet on a daily basis simply dont like Americans and usually their reason for being so comes from some kinda generalisation. "All Americans are shallow, egocentric, imperialistic warmongers". And this is peacefull(ie boring) Denmark - and most of this in less than a decade!. Even I sometimes feel it myself. Scary really, I wonder what it will end with.
  73. meetalisher · 30 Apr 2004
    last post.

    re:martin

    the most likely outcome would be a FOOM on US soil.
  74. Malthros · 1 May 2004
    No Meet, it would start with that, and end with nuclear winter when the U.S. returns fire before the missiles would hit (and they would, as would any other country), then everyone else would open fire, and we'd have a nice long nuclear winter.
  75. Arb · 1 May 2004
    I find this pro- and anti-americanism both fascinating and frightening--

    Fascinating because of the foreboding change I've noticed in the attitudes around the world after the fall of the Eastern Bloc--from a bipolar to unipolar (though I would better argue multi-polar) world. There was a time when the US led, however imperfectly, led the "free world" and it was cleary better off for it (e.g., north/south Korea, west/east Germany, etc.). Now that threat is subsided, the focus is gone and our collective attentions have turned inward and against each other.

    Frightening because of how otherwise rational people of relatively free societies around the world are so polarized against each other. Do you not value how much our common interests outweigh our differences? As an American having been born in Asia and having lived in Europe, I thoroughly enjoy what different people and cultures have to offer. I also appreciate the challenges every nation faces.

    What I ask is everyone to keep an open mind, realize we are probably on the same side, and humbly recognize that each of us really had absolutely nothing to do with the present world situation. On the other hand, there's no reason why each of us couldn't respect each other a bit more in a world we can shape--Arctic.
  76. psychoDAD · 2 May 2004
    Well put Arb.